The Future of Feathers UI: Part 2 — Haxe and OpenFL

confidant

Hi Josh,
As a semi-regular OpenFL user this interests me. There are already fairly mature UI frameworks, Stablex and HaxeUI which already work with OpenFL. It seems to me that premium Feathers products will really be necessary for you to get a critical mass of user buy-in. I know very little about Feathers, just that it was popular on the Flash platform—perhaps it has enough brand recognition that you can make this work. I wish you well!
-Allan

Pointless

Josh have you thought about taking Feathers over to Unity?
I haven't tried to create a ui recently in Unity, but when I have played around in the past its been painful compared to Feathers/Starling.

There's an asset store for monetising and the guy running NGUI has made alot of money with his system https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/gui/ngui-next-gen-ui-2413

Maybe some of the guys using Unity could share their experiences using the default stuff or NGUI. But in my biased opinion Feathers is way better.

carlosrovira

Hi Josh, very interesting and hope you get the back to go with it!

I never could try Feathers for a real project but I think is very cool, and coming from you is clearly very well crafted.
About a Haxe and OpenFL, is the same as before, I couldn't do any real work with it until now, in this case the main reason for me was that it was always targeting Games and not IT apps, that was where Flex was moving better. At the time where I evaluate Haxe I found a huge problem that I think is still not solved: the lack of MXML, or something similar. If you effort plan to bring MXML to Haxe, I think it would be a great point.

Just only hope you still continue doing so great contributions to Apache Royale, since is clearly better thanks to you.

Best

Carlos

joshtynjala

carlosrovira If you effort plan to bring MXML to Haxe, I think it would be a great point.

Some kind of XML is definitely in my plans. Ideally, it would be part of the compilation process with embedded Haxe code, similar to MXML. However, if I can't make that work, then I'll find a way to create UI from XML loaded at runtime.

carlosrovira Just only hope you still continue doing so great contributions to Apache Royale, since is clearly better thanks to you.

Yes, I plan to continue contributing to the Apache Royale compiler.

carlosrovira

joshtynjala Yes, I plan to continue contributing to the Apache Royale compiler.

great Josh! 🙂

However, if I can't make that work, then I'll find a way to create UI from XML loaded at runtime.

IMHO, load of xml at runtime would not be a good solution. The great point of MXML is the compiler translating to AS3 structures saving user time of writing that code. In fact I think something like that already exists in haXe and in other technologies tried to solve from that side, and I think they don't get to the same grade of useful feature that we want when think about MXML. Just my 2 🙂.

Gama11

carlosrovira The great point of MXML is the compiler translating to AS3 structures saving user time of writing that code.

For what it's worth, with Haxe macros, you can do just about anything you want at compile-time. 😀 Generating code from XML is something that for instance HaxeUI does (example).

Additionally, Haxe 4 also adds support for inline markup, which is great for UI libraries that use XML.

Dimensionscape

I have been experimenting with Haxe and OpenFL this past year. A familiar UI Framework would be awesome @joshtynjala. Feathers has frankly been indispensable to my final AS3 project and past workflow. It was such a pleasure to work with. Hope we can fund your goals. Best of luck!

Zantafio

Thats so great to hear. So I will definitely check out haxe / openfl out.

hugo

Hi Josh,

I never used Feathers..
I have a Desktop App built in Flex/AIR.

On the last days, I did an evaluation on Haxe/OpenFl but the HaxeUI (the gui definition in XML), it's very incomplete and seems that it's not maintained for about 2 years and for that reason, I don't seem my self investing on Haxe/OpenFl.

I read all your post and comments and I read that you have a client with Flex/AIR that want to port to Haxe/OpenFl.
Do you are also considering Desktop UI ?

A suggest is to build a guide for porting a small sample project directly from Flex/AIR to Haxe/OpenFl/Feathers UI.
This would help a lot for starters (specially who don't have experience on Feathers) and seems that there are a lot of Flex Apps out there.

I really hope that you be successful and would be nice if this is a way out for Flex/AIR on Desktop, since there is not much options like there are for mobile.

joshtynjala

hugo Just like the current AIR and Starling version of Feathers UI, I will ensure that the new OpenFL and Haxe version can be used to build apps for both mobile and desktop.

joshtynjala

In case anyone isn't following @feathersui on Twitter, we're one week away from the Kickstarter launch:

https://twitter.com/feathersui/status/1141027711856472065

Dimensionscape

2dguy What more would you like from feathers on AIR. Feather UI is already a mature framework with little to no outlook for performance increases or features as far as I can tell.

I hate to say it, after a few weeks to digest, and still with nothing substantial coming from Harman at the time of this writing, I think Harman has dropped the ball. Too much silence and uncertainties have caused most of us to move to Haxe already or begin the transition at least.

Honestly, aside from the fact that it's missing feathers, there's absolutely no reason not to.

joshtynjala Can't wait! I've had to roll my own components for Haxe Starling such as ScrollContainer and TextInput....I miss feathers!

hugo

Great news about support both mobile and desktop.
I will check you Kickstarter in a week and best luck.

2dguy

joshtynjala Additionally, I'd like Feathers to become a sustainable business going forward, so I'm also planning to create premium Feathers products — like advanced components, educational screencasts, and some in-depth ebooks. It's likely that some of these will become backer rewards in the upcoming crowdfunding campaign, but they'll primarily be a new source of income to ensure that Feathers can be self-funding and doesn't strictly rely on corporate sponsorship.

Now that Harmon is going to breathe new life into Air, how does that affect your outlook for supporting traditional AS3 development? Thx.

JohnBlackburne

2dguy Now that Harmon

Just to note it’s Harman, not Harmon, in case anyone is confused or tries searching.

2dguy

Dimensionscape I hate to say it, after a few weeks to digest, and still with nothing substantial coming from Harman at the time of this writing, I think Harman has dropped the ball. Too much silence and uncertainties have caused most of us to move to Haxe already or begin the transition at least.

hmm... interesting. Personally I'm fine with a last minute 64 bit build, but I could see larger companies needing stability much sooner and ready to move on to more stable technologies. Definitely Haxe is in my future if Harman really has dropped the ball.

Bink

Dimensionscape I hate to say it, after a few weeks to digest, and still with nothing substantial coming from Harman at the time of this writing, I think Harman has dropped the ball. Too much silence and uncertainties have caused most of us to move to Haxe already or begin the transition at least.

I agree from the perspective that it's prudent to have another ready option in the back pocket, or perhaps even shifting focus to that new option moving forward. Particularly as AIR is in a transition period at the moment, with deadlines looming and no absolute certainty it'll be ready.

That said, I haven't lost hope in Harman yet and I respect that it's no small thing that they're undertaking. With respect to the transition period, perhaps the ball has been dropped, we'll see, but my hope is AIR will continue to be a great option in the longer term.

Time will tell.

Michoko

Dimensionscape I hate to say it, after a few weeks to digest, and still with nothing substantial coming from Harman at the time of this writing, I think Harman has dropped the ball.

I certainly didn't want to start an argument, we definitely don't need another flame war. But when I read your statement above, it really didn't reflect my latest experience with Harman's communication. That's why I was checking if you got their latest email updates.

And yes, let's stay on topic, which is the future of Feathers UI. 🙂

Edit: Oh and by the way, I'll be very grateful for all the experience and knowledge you'll be willing to share in the future, regarding your migration, as this is an interesting technology. Cheers! 🙂

joshtynjala

Dimensionscape Can't wait! I've had to roll my own components for Haxe Starling such as ScrollContainer and TextInput....I miss feathers!

Just in case you weren't aware, the new version of Feathers UI will not be running on Starling. It will be pure OpenFL. To put it another way, Feathers components will be based on openfl.display.Sprite.

Dimensionscape

2dguy we are into the 3rd week of June without a beta, any concrete word on the pricing model(this is the biggest part) and still no developer hub/page.

With absolutely no numbers on how this is going to effect our bottom line, transitioning to Haxe and other technologies has become an absolute prerogative. We had no other choice and it was kind of out of my hands, personally.

In better news, we are going to be publishing some detailed migration guides to developing with Haxe, Lime, OpenFL + Starling coming from an AS3+Starling ecosystem in short time. 😃 We are also in the process of building an open-source engine on top of Starling for Haxe, but I can't talk about this much yet! 😉

In the mean time we are looking forward to Feathers....

Cheers

Dimensionscape

Bink We'll see. For us, it was a business decision, not a technological one. We still believe AIR has a fully capable and relevant SDK, especially for desktop platforms, but Harman has not given us enough concrete information to sell our clients on after such a major initial announcement so it's really out of our control, despite my personal feelings about the issue.

Michoko

Dimensionscape didn't you get the regular email updates from Harman? Yesterday they sent a license agreement for testing the new beta, and the actual beta should be available some time later today. They clearly didn't drop the ball, they actively worked on the new beta on many levels (even the ones we never think about, like legal issues), so please let's not spread false rumors.

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